Compare and Contrasting the Hero's / Heroine's Journey

In attendance

  • MLs: Jenny, Jen, Tim
  • Zoom: Catherine Brennan, Christine Edison, Liz Searle, Elaine, Gertrude, Kieadawn, Leslie Hatch Gail, Thea Wasil
  • 3 in person people: Chase, Nikki, Sandy
  • photos
  • mp3 recording of the session

Discussion

Intro to NaNo

  • Four ML volunteers
  • GwenTolios (Jenny), Dragon_rider82 (Jenn), samcadams (Sam), NewMexicoKid (Tim)
  • Theme: The Magic NaNo Bus
  • Virtual HipsterPDA: http://naperwrimo.org/vhpda
  • Three prep workshops planned
    • Oct 8: compare and contrasting the Hero’s / Heroine’s Journey (Jenny/Jenn)
    • Oct 15: Learn from the Masters to Prepare for NaNo (Sam/Tim)
    • Oct 22: Story Wall Party (Sam/Jenn)
  • 50K words in 30 Days in November (1667 words per day)
  • naperwrimo.org/region - our regional home page
  • naperwrimo.org/forum - our regional forum
  • Community/Forums
  • Library Crawl
    • win prizes at our Thank Goodness It’s Over party
    • we will use an online spreadsheet (naperwrimo.org/wordcount) to track participation (each write-in you participate in gets you a raffle ticket)
    • see faces.naperwrimo.org/naperwrimo2022 to see how you’re doing
  • TGIO party (virtual) - December 10th
  • Games are not scary but they are fun
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  • Writing Journey writingjourney.org
  • Next anthology is coming out soon!
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  • Slides at naperwrimo.org/prep

Workshop - The Hero’s and Heroine’s Journeys

  • Comparing and contrasting
  • Jenn Bauer (J.M.Guilfoyle pen name)
  • romance, SF, fantasy (urban & traditional), fanfics
  • Nerdy Mom Writes blog
    • reviews media, shares short stories
    • currently doing fictober
    • @WritesMom at twitter, drgnrder82 @ tumbler
  • Gwen Tolios
    • SFF, contemporary stories
    • @GwenTolios
    • Returning to You came out from Nine Star press this june
    • linkt.ree/gwentolios

Hero’s Journey

  • 1871 - Edward Burnett Taylor
  • Hero with a Thousand Faces, 1949, Joseph Campbell
  • Writer’s Journey, 1992, Christopher Vogler’s
  • Maureen and Kim Hudson - Heroine’s Journey
  • Gail Carriger: the Heroine’s Journey
  • Kim Hudson’s The Virgin’s Promise

Disclaimer

  • Spoiler warning: we’ll discuss story arcs: Harry Potter, Wonder Woman, Star Wars, older Marvel Movies

Laying the groundwork

  • Plot - how characters move through the story: events
  • Pace - heartbeat of the story, the speed at which a reader is pulled through a story
  • Beats, Plot beats - individual components of the story structure/plot
    • e.g., Overarching story: Cinderella’s father passes away, she is forced to be a maid for her evil stepmother until she meets the prince
    • beats are
      • dad dying
      • being forced to live in the tower
  • Trope - Carriger’s def: culturally shared concept inbued with social meaning that helps create a predictable metaphor or outcome
  • tropes exist within context: culture, genre, format

Tropes

  • tropes have a bad connotation, considered overused, lazy writing, perceived unoriginal ideas
  • BUT any fiction written in the hero’s or heroine’s journey are trope filled due to following predictable patterns. Tropes are what the readers seek out and expect. If you don’t get that, you lose your audience and readers.
  • Found family trope is one of Jenn’s favorite tropes
    • Mandalorian
  • Enemies to lovers (romance)
  • Friends to lovers (romance)
  • jamesharris.design/periodic - periodic table of story telling
  • young person comes into their power, the chosen one
  • underdog to topdog
  • incognito hero who helps others
  • Characters overcome their differences
  • female protagonist who goes against the norms (like Jo March in Little Women, Merida in Brave)
  • Chase: writing historical fiction, character is trapped by societal norms

Characters

  • protagonist - the main character of a story, who the plot focuses on
  • antagonist - main obstacle for the protagonist (sometimes not a character: cancer in The Fault of Our Stars)
  • archetype - recurring character or idea, a symbol/character trope who plays an expected role
    • seductive witch
    • old crone/evil witch
    • trickster guide
    • wise mentor

Exercise

  • hero / heroine?
  • Luke Skywalker - hero
  • Matilda - hero
  • Harry Potter - heroine
  • Wonder Woman - hero
  • Starlord - heroine
  • Hiccup - heroine
  • Hero’s journey: someone has to go out and have an adventure (Luke Skywalker)
  • Heroine’s journey:
  • https://thenovelsmithy.com/hero-vs-heroine-arc
  • a character may present biologically as male but gendered feminine by the overarching journey
  • hero & heroine don’t mean masculine or feminine protagonist; they refer to the journey the protagonist is following
  • hero = hero’s journey protagonist
  • heroine = heroine’s journey protagonist

Hero

  • hero is a protagonist who ventures forth from the world of the common, ordinary life he knows into a world of wonder to meet fabulous forces and overcome them in a decisive victory
    • inner journey is about self-confidence, building the skillset and removing a threat with what he’s learned
  • hero journey beats
    • hero has inherited specialness
      • could be a skillset
      • sets them apart from their peers (Luke has the force, Wonder Woman is a demigod, Matilda has psychic powers)
    • call to adventure
      • refuses the call
      • receives aid from mentor and/or the supernatural/meeting with the guide
    • withdrawal AKA quest
      • hero abandons community and begins quest
      • hero is tempted, distracted, encounters many obstacles
      • visits the underworld/has a moment of crisis but recovers
      • defeats his enemy 1:1 and earns a boon he can bring back home
    • return
      • hero is acknowledged for his success, presented with a reward, honored
      • hero receives glory but also isolation (pathos)
  • The Hero’s Journey was born out of an analysis of tropes from myths and archetypes

Hero patterns

  • while he may need a push or convincing, but he typically takes on the quest voluntarily
  • focus on hero’s solo growth and development (physical or emotional skillset)
  • “Chosen one” mythos – the hero is often the only one who can complete the quest
  • Weeding of allies leading up to the final fight
    • so the hero can have the 1:1 battle to complete the journey
  • A hero’s quest is his whole purpose within the narrative

Example of a hero: Luke Skywalker

  • at the end of the movie, it ends in a group shot (atypical of a hero’s journey; more typical of a heroine) instead of the hero in isolation
  • the hero’s journey and heroine’s journey are models; you don’t have to adhere to one or the other. You’ll see a lot of crossover. Stories may be on a continuum between the two models.
  • Harry Potter is the literal chosen one, but his journey is a heroine’s journey.
  • Avengers and Iron Man
    • Iron Man’s story is a hero’s journey, but as he progresses, his arc turns into a heroine’s journey
  • Any model can be tweaked and manipulated.
    • but if you mess too much with reader expectations, you might lose your reader
  • Wonder Woman (first movie) ends with her alone in the museum–a traditional hero’s journey, hits every beat.
  • People are familiar with the hero’s journey, expected by viewers
  • Writers can tweak the beats to mess with the reader expectations on purposes, to shake them up.

Defining the Heroine

  • the heroine is thrust from the common world into a supernatural world, but this journey is imposed on her involuntarily
  • During her quest, the heroine will find strength in her friends/family, and when isolated becomes weaker
  • She is a civilizing force throughout her journey
  • Heroine is not interested in revenge, retribution, or glory
  • She can divide tasks, achievements and rewards an dexels at these because of the way she perceives strength, power

Heroine’s journey beat

  • Descent
    • precipitated by a broken familial network
    • heroine please ignored and she abdicates power
    • withdrawal involuntary
    • family offers aid but no solution
  • Search
    • heroine’s loss of family yields isolation/risk
    • she employes disguise/suversion and alters her identity
    • appeals to and forms a surrogate network (found family)
    • visits the underworld aided by friends/family
  • Ascent
    • success in her search results in a new or reborn familial network
    • ties to negotiation and compromise that will benefit all
  • Harry Potter
    • loses his family
    • dysfunctional family with his uncle/aunt
    • goes to school (kind of kidnapped by Hagrid)
    • starts building a new familial network (a risk since he had been isolated so long)
    • employs a disguise to find the mirror of ereset
    • isolates himself
    • gets a found family in Ron/Hermoine
    • visits the underworld to find the philosopher’s stone
    • goes into the vines
    • saves his family and friends (only able to do this because they go down as a team)
    • thrives on negotiation and compromise
    • Harry’s spells he was great at were defense spells, not offensive ones

Heroine patterns

  • involuntary action
  • the more isolated she is, the weaker she is
  • when a heroine’s family is in danger, she’ll do anything, including giving up her power
  • Remains a civilizing force
  • Heroine rarely descends into violence
  • Harry has been perceived in the first book as being a very passive character.
  • Harry is a male character; people assume he is a hero (born in isolation), but he is a heroine who relies on others. Traditionally male thought patterns in our society: a man is only strong when working alone, relying on others is a weakness. If you have a male character who relies on other, it could be considered passive (Harry isn’t the one in control to stop the big bad).
  • Passive characters have no influence on the plot of the story
    • e.g., Indiana Jones
  • Harry takes actions that have an impact, very influential.
  • Heroine’s stories: it’s not the hero making things happen; the heroine is the team-maker (not doing everything in the story). Not considered the strong thing to do.
  • E.g., Iron Man in the first movie: there is no team, it’s about him. Hero might have allies (Frodo in the LoTR).
    • first Avenger’s movie: Tony becomes the team leader. Still technically a hero
  • Jenny has done feminist readings of Iron Man.
  • At the end of the world, Harry went into the room with Voldemort.
  • At the end of the day, Tony went into the wormhole to stop the invaders
  • In Wonder Woman, she gets to the final battle by herself and does everything by herself.
  • Harry’s parents are with him.

Feminine Characters in the Hero’s Journey

  • It’s not a matter of gender
  • Not limited to the protagonist (could be the antagonist or archetype characters)
  • Steve Trevor fills the role of many feminine characters in Wonder Woman; he serves as the crone/guide in the first movie, giving her the tools/knowledge of the real world; he is presented as the potential boon of the quest/virgin reward/partner. But she loses him. He plays the role of the seductress, tempting Diana away from her role as Wonder Woman in the second film.
  • Miss Honey in the film Matilda serves as the maiden, requiring justice in the terms of getting her inheritance back, providing Matilda with motivation and means for actions against the school principal.
  • Several classic Disney princesses are actually feminine characters serving as trials/rewards for the Hero of the Journey. E.g., Sleeping Beauty (POV but not the hero or protagonist of her story). Aurora is 100% passive character (agency is very limited).
  • In the heroine’s journey, the feminine character (“girlfriend”) goes on the journey with the heroine. In this case, they’re an equal partner in the quest
  • e.g., Pepper Potts in the first Iron Man movie
  • These are side characters
  • Feminine archetypes are roles that are well defined in the hero’s journey (e.g., damsel in distress), but these roles in the heroine’s journey are often transformed.
  • Hermoine is on the journey with Harry from nearly the beginning all the way to the end, lending her expertise.
  • April O’Neil in TMNT seves as an add’l resource to tap, transforming into a steady ally, including joining them in fights after becoming a kunoichi (female ninja)
  • Valka (Hiccup’s mother) in How to Train Your Dragon 2 is a guide in dragon knowledge. In many classic examples of the hero’s journey, the guide dies as a spur to action for the hero (e.g., Obi-Wan in episode 4); however, Valka remains alive to guide Hiccup through the remiander of his journey, now aiding him in chiefdom.

Story Elements

  • Does every journey include ALL the beats? No!
  • E.g., Star Wars and the three original trilogy, the end is a pan-out group shot (more common in the Heroine’s Journey)
  • But it is good to stay within these beats

Examples

  • Paper Girls - Heroine’s Journey
  • Reservation Dogs - Heroine’s Journey
  • Scholomance Series - Heroine’s Journey
  • Breaking Bad - Heroine’s Journey (Walter goes in involuntarily, diagnosed with cancer)
  • Supernatural - Hero’s Journey
  • John Gilstrap novels are heroine journey
  • Star Trek overarching is a heroine journey, episodically might be a hero’s journey
  • Carriger called out Black Panther that she couldn’t determine if it was a hero’s journey or a heroine’s journey
  • Ocean’s Eleven - Heroine’s
  • Hero’s Journey has gone through several renditions - Vogel’s from 1992. Campbell is from the 40s but based on the 1800s. So there is a development of what is the Hero’s Journey and the modern day conceptions. Campbell’s based on myths. Vogel is not.
  • Heroine’s journey is muddy because it is so new, that it was devised independently. Carriger’s one of three developed in contrast to Campbell. It’s about building that team.
  • Kim Hudson is the Virgin’s Promise, a woman who feels out of place in a male society.
  • In the 90s, women had fewer roles and liberties than they do now. Carriger developed her team-based society in the last five years (recent culture).
  • Carriger’s book goes through traditional myths as well as modern media stories to show how over time it is the same journey.

Beauty and the Beast Plot Beats (Activity)

  • Hero’s journey? Heroine’s?
  • Belle
    • Found family
    • weaker without her found family
  • but a hero’s journey
    • ordinary world
    • call to adventure
      • she doesn’t refuse the call
    • crossing the threshold
    • test, allies
    • … and enemies
    • into the cave/ordeal
    • crisis
    • return
    • final battle
    • return
      • not alone
  • Castle wants to have Belle and Beast in a relationship
  • Belle is a perceived chosen one
  • Romance could be either (but is traditionally a heroine’s journey)
  • Dual protagonist (arc of the guy and the woman)

Writing a character’s Journey

  • Stick with one! either hero or Heroine until you get used
  • Beats can be altered or omitted
  • Fitting it within the 3 act structure/expected pacing
  • Lean into tropes, specifically those of character and genre
  • If blocked:
    • (Hero’s) write a scene reminder the reader what’s at stake, showing off what the hero has learned (or needs to learn) or add a snag to the quest
    • try-fail, yes, and/but
    • (Heroine journey): introduce a new helpful friend, have the main character give out tasks or consult a mentor/export, introduce a sidekick or someone to help or hinder with their objective
  • Heroine journey is about building the team

Managing reader’s expectations

  • if you’re telling a certain journey, the audience will have expectations due to their familiarity with the structure and the tropes
    • romance: audience expects a happy ending
    • cozy mystery: expectation that the protagonist’s meddling makes them a target
    • chosen one protagonist story: audience expects an epic showdown with the villain
  • Return or look at similar narratives in the genre you’re writing. Is what you’re writing similar to an author whose writing is considered charming? Is that what you’re leaning into too?
  • Plotters can use the joiurney beats as a way to outline their story, customizing them to the story’s unique character, world, and plot
  • Discovery writers/pantsers can use the journey beats to help pacing and flow problems (does a beat occur too late in the story) in EDITING

Pacing Guide

  • Three act structure, Heroine’s Journey, Hero’s Journey beats side by side
  • Act 1 (first 30 pages)
    • heroine
      • broken familial network, lsos
      • heroine’s pleas ignored
    • hero starts to gain things
  • Act 2 (31-90)
    • hero is putting his skills in practice, learning what they can do
    • heroine alters herself, goes intto the underworld, moment of crisis, learning what the team can do
  • Act 3 (91-120)
    • hero: hero knows they are on their way back from crisis for that last battle, winning
    • heroine: new familial network

Discussion

  • Genre fictions – if you break reader expectations, you’re in a world of hurt.
  • If within a certain story structure, you’re keeping expectations; you can still turn something on its head. E.g., fantasy trope: there have been a string of animes with main characters dying and brought into a video game world. 3-4 years ago, people turned the trope on its head by having the “villains” become the protagonist.
  • Umbrella Academy - has found family vibes but they are actually siblings (Heroine’s journey)
  • Movie A.I. - ending after the ending (like the Return of the King)
  • Wicked (took the villain and told their story)
  • Romance is considered tropey, predictable–this is what people expect.
  • These journeys are everywhere in media; people will absorb them.
  • Historically, the Heroine’s journey was thought of as the Hero’s journey from the point of a woman
  • A lot of feminists said this didn’t track with a woman’s perspective.
  • Some of these things are rooted in how we think of things societally.
    • e.g., men who seek out help aren’t considered masculine
  • Books typically have 1-2 points of view; in a film you have character arcs of many characters superimposed on each other (need to know who the main protagonist is)
  • Male and woman protagonists go through their own story arcs.
  • Carriger’s book (goes through both Hero’s and Heroine’s journey) has a great breakdown of the first Wonder Woman movie
  • The Virgin’s Promise (written to help with screenwriting) - Heroine coming into her own in a world that goes against her (developed in the 90s)
  • Jenny wrote: I wanted to share a link I found recently that pairs with your question Tim - if readers are unaware of the structure of either journey, will they know you played with it in structuring your story?
    • In short, the answer is yes, but it's a rare reader that will identify it as a broken journey. It's more likely to be read as a pacing problem or a flat/boring plot.
    • While the writing advice linked is specifically talking about beats, each journey is structured around those beats - the individual events that make up the greater plot.
    • https://www.tumblr.com/gwen-tolios/697661892943069184?source=share